Beyond Data Management Podcast
The definitive podcast for government data management and stories from the field - with a special focus on Environment Health professionals.
Beyond Data Management Podcast
LA Has 15,000 Unpermitted Vendors — And 119 Free Carts Sitting in a Warehouse | Matt Geller
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Matt Geller is back — National Food Truck Association, Best Food Trucks, Revolution Carts — recorded live at GEHA 2026 at Lake Lanier.
This one is not a “how to start a food truck” episode. It’s a field report from the biggest mobile-vending mess in the country.
LA County paid for 125 permitted carts to get unpermitted vendors into the formal economy. Most of them are still sitting in a warehouse. An NGO was paid $1.2 million to get paperwork signed. Eight vendors made it through. Enforcement of unpermitted vending was paused. Meanwhile 15,000–30,000 unpermitted vendors are operating every day — no sinks, no commissary, no A grade — and permitted operators are competing against people who follow none of the rules.
Matt also breaks:
Kansas City’s 300-foot “no trucks near restaurants” rule
Home Depot’s national push to put permitted carts in front of stores
How ChatGPT sent Apple to Best Food Trucks
Feeding Boeing’s Everett plant (the building that spans two counties)
A new app that lets permitted trucks photo-report unpermitted vendors and heat-map problem corridors for health departments
Plus the advice he actually gives people who want to start a cart: know your numbers, test throughput with 20 friends, and don’t price off pre-cook weight.
If you work in environmental health, this is the episode that explains why “just give them a cart” fails without enforcement, education, and a real path into the formal economy.
Recorded at the Georgia Environmental Health Association 2026 conference.
Afdo.org/training
0:00 Intro
0:20 Live from GEHA 2026 with Matt Geller
1:03 National Food Truck Association + Kansas City’s 300-foot rule
2:04 Georgia laws, Home Depot, and the tamale-to-six-figures story
3:19 Revolution Carts: what they’re building
3:40 125 permitted carts for LA — most still in a warehouse
5:12 $1.2 million to hand out paperwork (8 vendors processed)
6:32 Enforcement pause, ICE, and competing with unpermitted vendors
8:29 Why vendors won’t take a free permitted cart
9:08 “Are we waiting until someone gets sick and dies?”
9:45 Two food systems: Venice gets an A, East LA gets whatever shows up
11:28 The pendulum: too strict in 2010, too loose now
13:06 Pop-up tents, no sinks, and outbreaks as a when not an if
13:52 The carrot: Home Depot, LA Metro, and county buildings
24:54 How ChatGPT sent Apple to Best Food Trucks
25:52 Feeding Boeing Everett — the building that spans two counties
28:29 What actually wins catering work (photos, signatures, not “sent from iPhone”)
30:21 From food-truck mania to part of the landscape
30:28 The operator who kept one truck unpermitted on purpose
31:33 The new app: permitted trucks report unpermitted vendors + heat maps
33:16 Advice if you want to start a cart: know your numbers
35:23 The pastrami-shrink math that killed a $5.99 sandwich
37:08 Wrap + what’s next
Shorter set if you don’t want 18 markers:
text
Beyond Data Management — powered by HS GovTech.
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We delivered the 80 carts, 77 of those carts are still sitting in a ISD warehouse.
SPEAKER_02Creating a second class uh of of dining and access, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it should be embarrassing. Are we just gonna wait till somebody gets really sick and there's just a bad outbreak break and somebody makes it dies?
SPEAKER_00This is the Beyond Data Management Podcast powered by HSGovTech. Now here's your host, Cameron Garrison. Welcome back.
SPEAKER_02We're still at Lake Lamere, 30 minutes uh north of Atlanta here at Jihad, Georgia Environmental Health Association, their 2026 conference, and having a lot of great conversations. If you're watching this on the channel, uh in the future, you're gonna be like, wow, they did a lot of episodes there. We we have uh a person that really needs no introduction, a friendly face that has been here before. Actually, episode four. It's time is flying, it's been that long. But Matt Geller, um, you have a lot of titles. We dealt with this last time. Um the best food trucks, right, is the is your food truck company, but you also are running associations and and you're probably the chief advocate in the country for for proper mobile operating, aren't you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I think uh not to take away from regional associations, but there's a lot of areas that don't have regional associations yet. So they come to us at the National Food Truck Association for help. And uh we're all volunteer. We charge nothing to be a part of the National Food Truck Association. Um, you know, we've got Kansas City right now is making regulations that block food trucks 300 feet from a restaurant for no other reason than to block competition. Uh so we're trying to help them with public records requests and figuring out what's going on with that. So we do a lot in that space, especially when there are regions that just don't have any sort of representation.
SPEAKER_02You have a way of finding your way into the hottest of issues, don't you? Yeah, because it is political, right? In so many of these jurisdictions. Yeah, yeah, definitely. In fact, you you're doing LA basically as a 24-hour day trip from here. Um, and what was interesting is when Danielle called us and said, Hey, can you bring the podcast now? And she's like, Matt's gonna be there. She goes, I watched the episode and I was like, I know him. Quick break to tell you about an exciting offering from Afto. Great technology can help agencies manage data, but even the best systems can't replace effective communications when the stakes are high. That's why Afdo offers the Crucial Conversations for Mastering Dialogue, a live virtual course designed to help leaders, managers, and anyone in a position where crucial conversations occur to navigate challenging moments. When opinions differ, emotions can run strong and outcomes are important. Knowing how to communicate effectively can be the difference between progress and gridlock. Over a five-weekly two and a half hour sessions, participants learn practical, research-backed skills to create psychological safety, reduce tension, build understanding, and turn difficult conversations into productive outcomes. Whether you're leading a team, managing projects, or working across agencies and stakeholders, this course provides you tools that you can put to work immediately. The course kicks off September 16th, and Afto members can save $100 on the registration cost. Learn more and register today by visiting afto.org slash training. That's afto.org slash training. We hope to see you there. So how how does she know? You actually have done some work um through your association, right, with with Georgia on their mobile.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So the the George the Food Truck Association of Georgia, um, they just wanted to change some laws and make things more uniform. And they came to us and we had worked, you know, on the Arizona Food Truck Freedom Bill, some things in Ohio, and we're constantly trying to get things either not passed if they're pushing something we don't like or passed if they are. Um and so I was just, you know, kind of gave my thoughts on everything for the new uh Georgia legislation. Um and above and beyond that, we, you know, we work with Home Depot, who I think is one of the, you know, nationally one of those companies that's really empowering mobile vendors right now because they have mobile vendors outside of their stores. And so we Best Food Trucks has a contract with them to bring mobile vendors to more and more stores. Um and in Georgia, where they're located, I you know, I come out to Atlanta and meet with them. And um, we've got I think eight stores and just in the Atlanta region. Um, and they, you know, Home Depot is just really empowering them. And you know, I've you know, I have a talk today at 245, and I'm gonna have a video about one of the first people we put at a Home Depot who went from selling tamales behind a tree out of a cooler to uh doing, you know, sit now a six-figure uh income permanent out of a permitted truck. Out of a permitted uh food cart.
SPEAKER_02What are your carts that you built?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, of course. So I also have a company called Revolution Carts where we build um so now we have uh an ice cream cart, a hot hold cart for tamales, a small grill cart that has uh that's only 58 inches long by 30 inches wide. Um, and then our big grill cart.
SPEAKER_02So we're you know we you're you're really growing that. Do you ever sleep?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I I try. I I would say right now, uh our biggest problem in in or the thing that's taking up the majority of my time right now is Revolution Carts has delivered 125 permitted carts to the county of Los Angeles for distribution to vendors that most need it.
SPEAKER_02I think when you were on last year, you were in early stages of that. Yeah, building them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So we delivered last year uh 80 carts, uh, all of them on time. We beat, actually, we beat the schedule. Um, and so the county of LA starting in August had 80 carts to distribute. 77 of those carts are still sitting in a ISD warehouse. Right now, still right now. Uh we've August, yeah, we've given away three, which was last month. Um, and so it's just frustrating. And that becomes my advocacy mission to like like my partners at Revolution Carts will say, well, they paid us for the carts. And I'll say, as an advocate, who cares? We have 15,000 unpermitted vendors in the county of LA, and they need help. And the County of LA residents who want to eat food should be eating safe food. And we all have now we have the means to give them. So we delivered the 80 carts. Uh, we just delivered another 45 grill carts. And so now they're sitting in our facility and we're they're gonna have like 118 on tap. They got 119 right now waiting, and then I've got another 15 grill carts and another 25 uh ice cream carts coming. And the biggest issue is how to get vendors to fill out forms.
SPEAKER_02The paperwork. The paperwork. Is there is is there like a is there like a legitimate, like big weighty issue to figure out about the forms, or is it just the typical committee drags on forever stuff?
SPEAKER_01No, it's not it's they they have an NGO that they contracted with. Uh, I don't necessarily believe that they understand how to get these forms filled out. And when we've given away 57 free cards sponsored by Taco Bell, sponsored by uh Rockstar Energy, sponsored by Snapchat. And what we do is we just chase the vendor down until they fill out the paperwork. And that means going to where they're vending on a corner if necessary. And inclusive action for the city who has the contract, who's been paid 1.2 million, who was originally supposed to be given they've been paid 1.2 million to administer giving away the carts that haven't been given away. Well, originally they were supposed to give away, they were supposed to build the 200 carts. They couldn't do that. So they changed the contract. Now they don't have to do that. Then they were supposed to build auxiliary sinks to uh use with the carts with just hand washing sinks. And then they were supposed to create vending zones. So they wiped all of that. Now all they have to do is get vendors to fill out paperwork. And have they done it? Yes, for eight vendors out of the over 100. So my I'm pushing and kicking and screaming and fighting and emailing. And on Tuesday I will speak in front of the supervisors. They'll give me one minute to speak and say, What are you doing? These people need your help.
SPEAKER_02So um because you were telling me before we recorded, like they're also doing some things through administrative policy that also don't really lend itself to leaning into the carts they have available in terms of uh enforcement, right?
SPEAKER_01Right. So 15,000 to 30,000 unpermitted food vendors working every day in the county of Los Angeles. And that's 85 cities out of the 88 cities. Uh, as you know, there's three cities that have their own health departments. Um, and about five to six months ago, they put a pause on that and they said, because of the ice rates, we're not gonna enforce unpermitted vending regulations. I asked them yesterday, yesterday, I said, when are you gonna start enforcing these regulations? Because if you're giving away carts and those vendors have permitted carts and they have to compete with people that aren't permitted, you're gonna destroy your own program.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And they said, we're no longer gonna go. I mean, I I have in my presentation, I actually have the email printed. We're not gonna go after individual vendors, we're just gonna go after the um organizations that are giving them carts, giving them food, which I think is gonna account for maybe 10% of them. So the whole policy has totally just gone south.
SPEAKER_02That doesn't make sense because you're not going to go enforce Costco, right? Because I would imagine if you're unpermitted, you're probably not running a credit account with a big provider, are you?
SPEAKER_01Right. So the I I their their um their basic thought on this is that there are, and this is true, there are some organizations that have a bunch of fruit carts, and you go pick up a fruit cart and you sell and they pay you 50 bucks for the day. They're gonna go after that.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so they're almost like a little syndicate of illegal vendors.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, then there's a little syndicate of guys that are little hot dog stands, you know, the with the the cookie sheet. Yeah, yeah, right. And and and those guys do exist. Are they the majority of the 15,000 unpermitted and that's conservative, 15,000 unpermitted vendors operating every day? No, maybe 10, maybe 20. Even if it's 30%, you're still dealing with thousands and thousands of vendors. And because of no enforcement, now they're incentivizing the the process.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, aren't you? I mean, if it's if you can do whatever you want, aren't you gonna get more of it?
SPEAKER_01Yep. And and the sad thing is there have been vendors that have won a free cart. I mean, the carts are anywhere from seven, I mean, the ice cream carts are three grand, the potd seven, the grill twelve. You win a free cart, and then you won't fill out your paperwork because you're like, I don't want to be permitted, I I can just keep doing what I'm doing. Which is, you know, like and having a grill. So, I mean, LA County is your picture perfect example of what not to do in this space, which is just let it run among for so long that it becomes such a big monster you can't even contain it.
SPEAKER_02And then it feels like if you go that down that road, then you'll be sleeping on it until something bad happens, right? And then of course it'll be a big thing and they'll have to bring it in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which is my email to uh someone who I respect a lot and I, you know, I think she's great. She's the you know uh director of environmental health. Uh I said, are we just gonna wait till somebody gets really sick and there's just a a bad outbreak break and somebody maybe dies? Is that what we're gonna wait for? And I I, you know, with foodborne illness and public health, it's not an if, right? It's always a when.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, especially with those numbers. 15,000 unpermitted, like the law of large numbers says things are gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01And the frustrating thing is, you know, you have a lot of advocates who are like, oh, let's let them do it. But like it's not fair that the affluent parts of LA, you know, where I can go to Venice, right? And I can have a great burger off of a food truck, and that food truck has an A on it. And if that anything happens, I can call the public health. Whereas, and that's an affluent community, and the places that are not affluent, they have they're stuck with getting what they get. And a lot of these areas in the eastern part of the city, like they don't have a lot of food options. So they're going to these unpermitted.
SPEAKER_02So that that they don't have restaurant row and budgets and so you're just you're condemning them to to fend for themselves. You're creating a second class uh of of dining and access, right? Yeah, and it should be embarrassing.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it should we should be able to do that.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, because you're not inclusive at all. No. Is it that I they they are a lot of really dedicated people in LA County. Uh I I know a lot of them, like you know all of them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um is part of it that nobody wants the hot potato because it the police definitely still don't want to touch it, do they? Right.
SPEAKER_01I mean, some of the smaller cities, like LA's LA, right? LA City is a city of four million people. Some of the smaller cities are cracking down, not with the health department, but just police are going out and saying you can't vent here. Um, just in where I live, which is a fairly, you know, I'm right outside of LA. I live in a city called Culver City. There's like six or seven vendors that take up the entire sidewalk. When I walk to CVS to go get uh a prescription, I have to walk into the street around them. Seriously.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. There's a lot of statutes on the books that make that not something you're supposed to do. Whether you're selling doesn't matter whether it's food or not. Like if you or I, what would uh maybe in LA, maybe we could just camp out on the sidewalk and they wouldn't care.
SPEAKER_01And it's why I mean, you know, I've been in arguments with the county health department about whether two food trucks or three food trucks require a community event permit if vending on a private piece of property. And that fight lasted two weeks and I had to get the supervisors involved, and finally we agreed to three and not two. Like, imagine that fight and then this fight where I'm like, you're not gonna inspect anybody? Nobody, like you're just you've just given up that. And it just feels so different than when I first started the SoCal Mobile Food Vendors Association in 2010, where I had food trucks that had to be within 200 feet of a restaurant restroom, and I had one 201 feet once and got shut down and had to come in for a hearing. That's that that was strict. That and it was too strict, and we worked it out and now it's better. But like, but did they go too far the other way? And that's what that's this pendulum that just swings back and forth. And we all just need a little bit of central hang in the middle for a little while. So that's what we're dealing with in LA, and it's um you know, it's nothing but frustrating. And yeah, uh, you know, in this whole process of giving away carts, uh, there was a lot of blame put at the head of the or at the foot of the uh department of public health. And I just kept saying, when I work with them, they get back to me, they approve our carts quickly, when we need them to come out and inspect the carts, like everything that DPH was doing to get these carts into the hands of people and they were getting blamed for a lot was perfect. This new policy, I don't believe, is really coming from the county health department. I think it's coming from uh the elected board offices, and they think they're doing some sort of some sort of good, but they're really they're gonna find that it's gonna be helpful.
SPEAKER_02It's it's that's an it's it's anarchy, at least with food trucks, right? Like it's you can't do it. Food carty.
SPEAKER_01I mean, really it's just not the full trucks, but the cart. They're just setting up a pop-up tent, having a big thing, a trumpo, you know, like the big, yeah. And they're just and there's no sink, right? There's no hot water.
SPEAKER_02It might be an igloo cooler if you're lucky, right?
SPEAKER_01And you know, we've had some significant outbreaks in the country lately. And so now everybody's got to hope and pray that it ends up okay. And um, and you know, I still believe that if there was some reasonable enforcement and you have this new car program and people were educated on which food trucks to eat from, and the food vendors were educated on how they can become permitted, you would see a a shift towards the formal economy.
SPEAKER_02You would all the all the incentives would be towards joining the formal economy, wouldn't they?
SPEAKER_01And you know, one of the things that we're trying to do, and I'm actually going to talk about my speech today, is um, you know, the more things like a Home Depot. Uh we we have a deal with Met LA Metro. We're gonna put vendors at metro stations. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, and we're uh, you know, and we're talking to more, and I'm I'm talking to the county about putting vendors at county buildings with hundreds of employees so that they can make you know, and so then you dangle this carrot, you have some enforcement, you dangle a carrot saying if you have a cart, you get to go to these really um uh these places that are gonna make you a lot of money.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_01And then we can and then people start to see A's on the carts that and then we can change some and then and then literally momentum takes over, doesn't it? And so we need that momentum, but if they're not gonna enforce anything, then I can't I like I I'm running backwards, right?
SPEAKER_02So you're gonna have a viral moment when you go to the you say it's LA County Commission meeting you're going to be. Yeah, uh Board of Supervisors.
SPEAKER_01Board of Supervisors meets every Tuesday, and I usually will have to sit there. I mean, I've sat there seven hours to get up and speak for one minute before.
SPEAKER_02And they enforce it. And then they'll you probably see some crazy stuff while you're waiting too, don't you?
SPEAKER_01Oh no, I don't even know that this there's a guy in there that he's always screaming all sorts of obscenities, but um, but you know, they will typically come out and you know, they'll send all like they're up there and then they'll send their people to come talk to me and I'll give everybody the business for you know the next 20 minutes. And then, you know, if I don't I mean, I I tell them all the time, if I don't keep pushing, you guys will just forget I exist. And I understand LA County has 10 million people. That's more people than 40 states. You have to make noise. There's there's a bud, a massive budget for the county, and they're dealing with wildfire, like a fire fires right now. They're dealing, they're just they deal with so much.
SPEAKER_02How is that going with the fire recovery? Because you know, when you don't live there, you see you see stuff online that the recovery, the rebuilding from the fire pastor almost two years ago now, yeah, um, is really slow. And you care about a lot of things. And one of them was right after the fire. It was um, I think it was right around the time that you did the podcast the first time, you did a fundraiser. Um I I believe I donated to the leak. I if I flaked, uh I think I did I how did that go well?
SPEAKER_01Were you funds together? For about a month we were feeding first responders every uh five nights a week. Um your own pocket. Well, so I mean we best food trucks put a lot of money into it, but nothing compared to a star a star that all of you know, and I'm not allowed to say his name because he didn't want any credit for it. He's a musician and he's amazing. And he just said, send me the bill every night. His people did, I didn't talk to him personally, and he would not take and I was like, I gotta tell someone he's like, Nope, you know, I'll tell you, but didn't want the publicity, didn't want the publicity, but Fed P Fed first responders every night for a month. It was crazy. And I you know some of them, you know, fourteen hundred dollars, fifteen hundred dollars, you know, just I'm just sending them a bill every day. They just paid it every day. Boom, boom.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's amazing. There's still a lot of good people out there. Yeah, definitely. It's amazing. So what so a Kansas City thing uh caught my attention when you said that earlier. It does sound like they're just colluding with uh brick and mortar restaurant change for anti-competitive. Yeah. What what have you discovered so far? I know public records requests are a slow, tedious process.
SPEAKER_01They they didn't give us anything. I'm I'm just drafting my response saying this is you know, so so those non-responsive, yeah. Um now the one thing I'll tell you about LA County, the city of Los Angeles, when I put in a public records request, they are they take it very seriously and they give me everything. That's great. So, but in Kansas City, not so much. And um, and they're calling attorney client privilege, and I'm like, I just want to see the emails between the restaurant association and the um and the elected officials. And I, you know, I'm not so crazy as to say food truck should be able to do whatever they want, right? But I am very uh serious about government staying out of comp competition, right? And it and you know, I look at Washington, DC as the very best example, and that was I I worked in Washington, DC in 2004. The food wasn't that great, food trucks came around in 2010 and they absolutely demolished the restaurant industry, mostly because the restaurant industry was really terrible and they were serving like college style buffet lines, and then they didn't have to do anything else, and then the restaurant came industry came screaming back, and there are very few few food trucks in the district now.
SPEAKER_02Really? So because so many good restaurants opened.
SPEAKER_01Because they just got smoked by good restaurants, and you know, we're consumers, and when you think about an elected official, you might have a few food truck uh constituents, you might have a few restaurant constituents, but what you have is a lot of food-eating constituents who you're supposed to be representing, and competition creates great product, and uh and it did in DC, and DC is now a very, very serious food city. I think food trucks have a lot to say.
SPEAKER_02I didn't know that backstory because DC is now like known, you can get some good food in DC. That's great, and um so our competition, it is, it is uh honestly what built the country, right? You know, it's um and government putting their thumb on the scale. Even if they a lot of times you find these are good people, like we're at the conference you have good people a lot of cases it's not even being done intentionally. It they sometimes they have good motives for what they're doing. Sometimes no, but in a lot of cases, but unintended consequences, man, they come. Yep. And they get you hard. How is the food truck business going in general? Because you give so much to yourself for no charge. Um because you did the Taco Bell Initiative. How is the all of how's the that business and company going?
SPEAKER_01I I mean, best food trucks continues to grow. I mean, you know, we have contracts with uh Boeing, so we do Boeing campuses nationally, um, Home Depot. Um, we you know generate a lot of income for food trucks through our catering system.
SPEAKER_02Um like the portal, it handles everything for them, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_01And um, you know, I think what you're seeing is more and more, you know, more and more people are back to work, and a lot of these uh big office complexes are they don't want um they don't want cafeterias anymore, right? Because the same thing, and so they're like more and more people are really into food truck schedules and food truck um rotations. Like nobody wants me to send the same food truck every day. They want, you know, when I send a food truck, I say you won't see them again for three weeks, right? So um and so yeah, our business is booming and and food trucks are doing great. And because it is such a competitive market, you're just seeing better and better food trucks, better and better quality, you know, more efficiencies in just trying to uh you know serve the public. I mean, we did um Uh WWDC this year, the Worldwide Developer Conference on the Apple campus.
SPEAKER_02Really?
SPEAKER_01Thousands of vendors. Did you go to the Apple campus?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we were I I've always wanted to get it. It looks cool.
SPEAKER_01It's really cool. Um, and we had uh I believe 14 trucks and we had to serve 1,500 people in about two and a half hours. The longest wait was four hours or four minutes. Four minutes? Yeah, yeah. And wow. So one of the craziest things that I you know, I I I laugh at this because these are all developers, they're all very they they do very well. Yeah, yes, and we we gotta feed them fast, and we have everything empanadas, Chinese, like everything. Which truck had to go into their reserves? Because everybody had a certain amount. What cuisine did the best? Hot dogs. Seriously? What? American hot dogs. American hot dog. People were running around with two hot dogs in Cupertino, California.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, you yeah, the W-2s of most of the people ordering those hot dogs would would put put us in shame, probably.
SPEAKER_01So the the um, you know, the the but the longest line we had was the hot dog line. It got backed up a little bit about four minutes. So, you know, I say that too. I remember when food trucks really got started and they started getting catering gigs and they could not ha handle volume. It was taking them three, four, five minutes to get through meals, 10 minutes. And these guys, the way we did their menus, they were just food was just I'm flying out.
SPEAKER_02So you're orchestrating every element of it, what what the truck serves, probably their processes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, everything. Um, I mean, even where they are, like um, you know, when these guys walk out, what's going to be the most popular? We try to put them out here so they walk the whole thing.
SPEAKER_02They can go buy them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, where the dessert is, like we're really serious about all of that, especially in something like that. But I was just so proud that these guys just, you know, they got the food out, they had their systems down, and so as you're seeing the food truck industry grow and expand, you're just seeing operators that are just absolute professionals, just amazing skill set.
SPEAKER_02And because they have to earn their customers' business, don't they? Yeah. Are they using your computer systems too? Aren't they?
SPEAKER_01So on something like that, there's all the food was paid for by Apple. Oh, so it's just you're so they're just they're just walking out grabbing food and walking to sit down. One one payer of the check at the end. Yeah, that's that's nice, isn't it? Yeah, for sure. Especially, you know, we do a lot of big hospital like uh healthcare appreciation events, and when we do that, you like we once tried to have the doctors and nurses ordering beforehand, they don't even walk out with they're in scrubs, they don't even have their phone with them, they don't even know what I wouldn't have thought of that. Yeah, so so like we're you know, we there is a style and system for every type of customer. And when you're dealing with like something like WWDC or uh a big hospital um uh event, you just gotta let people walk up and grab one thing or the other thing. Each truck had three things, so just boom, boom, boom, or we'll wonder grab and go. Yep, grab and go.
SPEAKER_02Four minutes. Uh you can't even find any drive-throughs in the country. I mean, that was more that'll do that.
SPEAKER_01That was only about 10, 15 minutes where it got up to most of the time. No wait. Just walk right up, grab one of the three. Wow. And how many people was that event did you say?
SPEAKER_02How much of the Apple campus did you get to see?
SPEAKER_01Not not I didn't get to go into the the infinite loop. I was right across the street at the developers uh conference. It was uh but they're you know consummate professionals. We talk to them. Uh they have their own health department on staff. Apple has a health department. Yeah, it's all it's staffed by um basically uh environmental health specialists that were at health departments before. They went in and they temped everything. We we had the food trucks show up an hour and a half early. They temped everything, they checked every truck, they wrote out inspection reports everything. Using the food code. Yep. Yep, California retail food code. That's a story.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they've Apple would probably never talk to anybody about that, but that's remarkable. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They probably pay really good compared to it. I don't know, but they they were they were just absolute professionals. Like just that is they were just the the best.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I would it doesn't surprise me though, they pay attention to detail there. Oh man.
SPEAKER_01And they have their own, they have their own, they they don't go to Aramark or Sedexo or Compass, they have the Mac Cafe.
SPEAKER_02They're in-house.
SPEAKER_01In-house. All they do all their how do you land an account like that? Because that's a that's rare air, like ChatGPT. The company that so they had a an event company that they hired, and that company was trying to find somebody like us, and they went to Chat GPT, and ChatGPT said go to Best Food Trucks. Amazing. How hilarious.
SPEAKER_02So Apple Apple from Chat GPT.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So I mean Apple doesn't do with them. So there's like a vet like that. So you know that so that company came.
SPEAKER_02But still, like that company has got to be very careful with the vendors they select because Apple does care so much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, oh no, I mean big honor. When we do when we do present, when we do proposals, I mean we we have things down to the minute. Like we're in we're just I mean, we work with Boeing and I mean we work with some really big guys. You cannot mess up, no messing up, right?
SPEAKER_02So and Boeing has been knocked around more, but I know that I've I've always had good luck on their planes. I've landed every time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02All right, so you're doing are you doing that uh the facility that's the largest building on the planet? Uh that they went up in the building. In Everett.
SPEAKER_01Everett, yes. I've been there. I've been in it, yeah. In the building, yeah. That's what's it like? Is it overwhelming or oh yeah. I mean, you just walk in and there's like seven triple sevens across that wall, you know, and that wall is you know, a mile or three-fourths of a mile that way, a mile that way. They get around in there, they walk or do they use like I mean they're they're typically at particular locations. And so we get them, you know, anybody in there, they're they're never making it to the cafeteria. It's just too far, right? It's too much. Yeah, it's a mile just to get to those two. So we we put position food trucks outside. They online order through best food trucks, and then they get a text when their food is ready. So they just they order and they can order the day before too, and then they just start walking. Bing, your food is ready, they grab it, they sit down, they eat, and they only get 30-minute breaks, the blue collar guys, and so they're right back on the line. So you do that every day out there. No, uh that for that campus and Everett, we're just doing um two days for standard service at four locations, Tuesdays, Thursdays. And then we have a lot of like, hey, we want an ice cream day this day, or we want to feed people this day.
SPEAKER_02So um be popular with the folks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. And we do Charleston as well, and then we do uh Oklahoma City.
SPEAKER_02What's the plan? And uh just up the road in South Carolina.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02How big is that one by comparison? It's big.
SPEAKER_01But it's not as big as that. The Everett one is like it is in two counties. The building crosses two. No, no, no. The the the campus in campus. Yeah, wow. I mean my first meeting there, I went to I went to multiple zip code campuses. Yeah, I mean, I went to the place I thought it was supposed to be, and they're like, Oh, you're in the wrong place. I had to jump in an Uber and drive 15 minutes to get to the right place.
SPEAKER_02And stayed on campus the whole time. The whole time. Oh, that's insane. Um, they sat which one do they manufacture in the South Carolina plant? Is it 787s? The Dreamliner is coming out of there. Interesting.
SPEAKER_01I have a shirt that's but I bought it in the in the gift store that's like and I wear it when I you know fly on planes. And oh, are you with Boeing? I'm like, well, I feed them. Sort of.
SPEAKER_02What what I dare I ask, what else are you working on? Like you actually you've been doing, you had done some podcasting since we last talked, didn't you? I'd seen a couple of things you did. It was really good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, that the the thing that we're really uh working on is um like informational, right? So there's a lot of people still getting into the food truck space. There's a lot of people that have been in it for a long time. Uh the the space ebbs and flows. Sometimes it's really catering heavy, sometimes it's event heavy. So we're just doing our best at Best Food Trucks to just give really, really good information based on now eight years of data. You know, when somebody comes to me and they say, Well, I, you know, I'm not getting any of these catering gigs. And I'm like, Well, you don't even have any pictures on your menu. Oh, what do you mean? So, like making sure that they understand, like, shoot the food in in natural light. These are the things you should do. Like things like that, or things like that. I harp on literally every week. When you email a customer, have a signature block.
SPEAKER_02That makes sense, right? Yeah, oh yeah, like I'm the email how to get a hold of you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just your name, a link to your website, uh, your phone number, any links to any articles about you, your social media. I have a story and I won't say who the client was because I'm not allowed to, but um, it was a massive contract. They needed food trucks tomorrow. And I put out an email and I said, This is what we need two trucks lunch, two trucks dinner, all food paid for. People just walk up and grab food, which means it's gonna be a two to four thousand dollar shift per shift. And some trucks got back to me and said, Hey, I'm interested. Sent from iPhone. And some trucks got back to me and said, This is me, I'm amazing, you know, this is why I'm amazing, this is my food, this is an article written about me. Well, who do you think I'm gonna go with?
SPEAKER_02Who are you gonna pick? How how is so social media must be pretty important in that business, or is it not?
SPEAKER_01It is. I mean, there, but they're the amount of trucks that rely on social media in a meaningful way is a lot smaller than it used to be. And I always tell trucks this you know, at the heyday of the food truck industry in LA, 2009 to 2013, everybody's looking for trucks. But at some point it becomes ubiquitous, like it's just becomes like part of the culture. And when I say to a guy like, hey, you gotta go check out this food truck, and he's like, Well, food trucks come to my office every day, right? So I always say, like February 2010, the first food truck festival. 5,000 people expected, 16,000 people showed up, fire department stopped 5,000 people from coming, every truck, three-hour lines, absolute mayhem. Two years later, food truck festival, nobody showed up. And that's because nobody could find a food truck in 2010.
SPEAKER_03They were all right.
SPEAKER_01By 2012, they were deployed and they were at your office and they were at your park and they were at They're just part of the permanent landscape.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And it's so sad. I mean, I it is so sad. I I I know a food truck operator, actually, I just had a meeting with him the other day, who had 17 trucks, 16 trucks. And um and he was so frustrated by all the unpermitted vendors. He basically had a uh health inspector walk by three unpermitted vendors, go on his truck and say, I'm gonna inspect you. And he said, You can't inspect me. And he said, Why not? He says, Because I don't have a permit. He says, Yeah, you do. He says, No, I have a permit for all my other trucks, not this one. And you're not allowed to inspect me. And the guy's like, he's like, uh uh, and he calls the and they're right, right? So he has to get off the truck and he and then he went in and said, I did that on purpose to show you how crazy how crazy it is that you'll walk by unpermitted vendors to walk on a permitted truck, and that's why I kept that unpermitted. So a lot of the sidewalk vendors uh that are permitted or the food card, food trucks that are permitted, are more frustrated than anybody that they have to compete with groups that have no permit, have no washing, have don't have to have a commissary, don't have to have like equipment.
SPEAKER_02Potentially unlimited competition that doesn't have to play by any of the rules. Right.
SPEAKER_01And so one of the things that I'll be talking about here is um with our app, our and we haven't launched it yet, but we're launching it soon, and you know, any partnership with any health department, with our app, a health um a food truck will be able to take pictures that are marked so that it can be automatically reported to health departments.
SPEAKER_02So you that's brilliant.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so your best line of defense, like instead of being at odds with these food trucks that are permitted, they should be your first line of defense because they're gonna tell you faster than anybody or the unpermitted vendors.
SPEAKER_02And they are out there.
SPEAKER_01And they're out there and they want them, they want it fixed, right? They want to be they're compliant, they want everybody to be compliant. So yeah, our new system is gonna When are you gonna release that?
SPEAKER_02That's really smart.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that's we're gonna that'll probably release in the next couple months.
SPEAKER_02Um when you drop it, will you come back on and show us and talk about it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_02Come on remote from LA. That would be that's gonna be really really helpful. Yeah, because like right now, all they can do is really just complain and get frustrated, right? Right. Giving them a chance to constructively, and it gives the health department the ability to paint a map. Yeah, just heat picture of what's out there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just a heat map. So these these things will go in and then it'll all be heat mapped because it's all iPhone, right? Um, and then you'll know where your problem problematic areas are. And you know, again, I don't want heads cracked, and you know, I don't want crazy enforcement, but like education's your your first step. Enforcement is part of that, um, is part of that step. And you know, helping vendors that are unpermitted get permitted. And I I really believe that, but you can't do any of that until there's some sort of consequence for doing it wrong. That's right.
SPEAKER_02There has to be a rule somewhere. Yeah. Um, what so what would you because you're like like you're here, right? Like you you put it, you put in the work. Um, you have a good relationship with regulatory, uh, even if you are a pain to them sometimes. LA County probably agrees that, but but they also like you, yeah, right? Like because you you're coming from a good place. Like they know what you're about. What would you tell if somebody's out there they're like dying to start a food cart, they think it's a good business. They they think they what are what are this the basic wise advice that you would give to anybody that called you or you know, wanted to join one of your associations or uh groups? What do you tell them? I mean, obviously email signature, sad that has to be told these days, but like what are just like the basics to have at least a chance?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I I I always start with you're going into a this business to make money. And I have seen so often food truck operators um serve a product, and at the end of the day, the money that they took in, very little of that money went into their pocket. And that's just a lack of understanding of like putting together a business plan, uh PL, like just all the things necessary to be successful. And what I'll always say is whatever you want to serve, get ready, get in your kitchen, invite 20 of your friends over, and how fast can you get through those 20 friends?
SPEAKER_02That's that exactly.
SPEAKER_01And so, like making a sandwich, making tacos, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_02And you turn it scale.
SPEAKER_01Because now on a food truck or a food cart, you have your hour and a half lunch rush, and then you don't have a lot after that. So in that hour and a half lunch, can you make enough money at the speed with the menu, all that to actually make a run at it? And if you only want to start one food truck, maybe it's not the best idea if you if if you're okay with the income. But if you're trying to create something bigger, maybe the second food truck, the uh a food cart, I think that's a really good goal to have. But your product has to make you money. And I'll I'll just give you a quick um, you know, 2010 pastrami truck. They weren't making any money, they couldn't figure it out, they were doing their cost outs, but they were doing their cost outs on a pastrami that was 10 pounds, and then they steamed it for four hours and it was seven and a half pounds. So they did the math wrong. So their pricing was completely odd.
SPEAKER_02It'd be at least a 25% increase, right? In your because you yeah, and that and that's the fine print on every hamburger was uh post-cooking pre-cooking weight.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so then they had to, they were selling the sandwiches for $5.99. They put it up to 10. I mean, they just freaked out because they had burned the hole. And so it's so important that whatever you're gonna serve, you make money off of.
SPEAKER_02Almost every business, know your numbers, right?
SPEAKER_01Right. But but and then the numbers you have to think about how much is it gonna cost to upkeep your truck? How much is it gonna cost to upkeep your um your generator? Is your staff, you know, do you have enough room for your staff on the truck so they can all drop together? Are you gonna have to pay, you know, help them pay to get to your locations? Like there's all these little things. And so I try to go over all of that with them. That's what the first podcast was about. And then what's your mix? You want to be more on the street or more catering? Well, you always want to do more catering because then you can really control your numbers.
SPEAKER_02So uh that's a lot of people, it's it looks simple from the outside, right? Oh, just get a cart or a truck and sell food. But it's there's a lot to it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a business. It's a business, and it's you know, I I always say that there were the pioneers of the LA food truck industry, and the guys that came into it were really, really savvy, and they were you know guys that were chefs. And then I said the next round about 2011, they were the gold rushers, and they were just buying like frozen patties and trying to serve, and they had a beautiful looking truck, but they didn't have a very good product, and they kind of washed out really quickly.
SPEAKER_02It's interesting in so many professions it's this way the people who do it really well make it look easy, don't they? And so that invites the the oh, me too group to come along as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, wild. Yeah, and you know, I mean, you still have to have a brand that looks good, you have to have a pres social media presence, but none of that matters if you're not making money from the burrito that you're selling or the the sandwich you're selling.
SPEAKER_02Really, really good advice. I can't wait to see the app. I've and um that is I know there's a lot of health departments around the country that will embrace it.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02Like I mean not everybody's not enforcing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know, I know. And you know, we're like we just did a full vendor rebuild um to really gamify someone a vendor signs into best food trucks. It's like you don't have enough pictures, or you could be making more money if you do this. So we really want to gamify that that um that reporting process as well. So they're really incentivized to help the local health departments um, you know, do what they need to do. Do their job.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's great. I know you got a presentation again, so I don't want to send you to the podium late, but man, thank you so much. And um we'll yeah, let us know when the app is out. Matt Geller, the food truck guy, so much more than that, though. It's good to see you in person. Um, so we will let him go. And we have a couple more conversations worth to tear down the mobile studio, but uh you enjoyed that as much as I did. And um, he broke some news here, Kansas City, LA. You got some facts you're not going to read about online, probably for sure. So thanks to Matt for all of us here at the Beyond Data Management Podcast, powered by HSGovTech. I'm Cameron Garrison. We'll be back with you soon with more from Jiha.