Beyond Data Management Podcast
The definitive podcast for government data management and stories from the field - with a special focus on Environment Health professionals.
Beyond Data Management Podcast
From IBM Statistician to Kroger Food Safety Chef | Chef John live at GEHA 2026
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Chef John does food safety and regulatory compliance for Kroger’s Atlanta division — 182 stores across Georgia, Alabama, and South Carolina. Recorded live at GEHA 2026 on Lake Lanier.
He started at IBM as a statistician, took a buyout, and IBM paid for Johnson & Wales. Now he’s the chef who still cooks for TV — and the guy who trains store leaders as Certified Food Protection Managers.
In this conversation:
How Kroger’s FAST system (Food at Safe Temperatures) puts sensors every four feet and alerts when a case goes above 41°F
Freezing day-of-expiration product for Second Harvest instead of throwing it away.
A mobile grocery store for food deserts, built with the Georgia Department of Agriculture
Why Chipotle, Blue Bell, and Boar’s Head still sit in the back of consumers’ minds
Wet-aging a ribeye in cryovac, sear hot, finish at 250°F to 133
Feeding 3,500 people at South Beach Food & Wine — with food safety first
What industry should actually do at state EH associations instead of treating inspectors like “the cops”
Live from GEHA 2026, Lake Lanier, Georgia.
Beyond Data Management, powered by HS GovTech.
Chapters
00:00 Intro — live at GEHA
00:40 “If I told them my last name…”
01:45 182 stores, three states
04:12 IBM statistician → Johnson & Wales
06:32 Shrink, food banks, Second Harvest
09:19 FAST sensors every 4 feet
11:35 Chipotle, Blue Bell, Boar’s Head
13:49 CFPM training for every store leader
15:47 Mobile grocery store / food deserts
23:50 How Chef John cooks a ribeye
28:13 King’s Hawaiian / 3,500 covers
29:17 Super Bowl and World Cup food safety
33:41 Everybody has a camera
35:02 Recipe on the front, food safety on the back
Links
AFDO Crucial Conversations — https://www.afdo.org/training/
GEHA 2026
Please remember to like and subscribe - and reach out to us with your stories and show ideas Beyond@hscloudsuite.com
Everybody knows me by chef shot Isaac. If I told them my last name, they would know me. I graduated from college with a degree in statistical process control, and I work for IBM as a statistician. Really? So it's like still like night and day.
SPEAKER_00This is the Beyond Data Management Podcast powered by HS GovTech. Now here's your host, Cameron Garrison.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back. We are live at uh beautiful uh Lake Lanier in Georgia at the Jihad Conference 2026, posted up here in the corner of a ballroom. And special thanks to the folks at Jihá for uh inviting us and uh giving us the space to uh clutter up uh one of their rooms here. I've been looking forward to the guests joining us here uh ever since you showed up on the list as somebody who would be available to sit down and uh you go by Chef John, right?
SPEAKER_02That's everybody knows me by Chef John. I if I told them my last name, they would know. They would know who I was.
SPEAKER_01And I um it's funny because when uh Danielle sent over the email and the information, she decided like to introduce you to Chef John. And I'm like, but if I Google Chef John, like Oh, it'll come right off and you actually did. Google actually knew who Chef John was. That's awesome. So you're fascinating because you are a chef. I am a chef. And uh you Johnson and Wales, right? Johnson Wales University, Florida, Miami. I think the big question is so there's a it's a natural progression to what you do now, but it's not the necessarily the day in, day out expression of the art, right? So how did you go from because obviously chef being a chef's a passion, right? Like if you don't have the passion, it's not for you. Without a doubt. So you obviously loved it. Love it. How did you what was your journey to go from the traditional chef path? You do a lot of media stuff, to now being well, let's actually give them your title. So you're in charge of all like food safety at Kroger, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I um uh Chef John, I do food safety and regulatory compliance for Kroger. Uh we call it the Atlanta divisions, three states in the South. It's Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina. Oh wow. That's big that's and you guys have so many stores nationally that like it's a big territory. My territory is 182 stores.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow. We were just talking before we started recording. Um so Harris Teeter is sort of a legacy brand in the Carolinas. Uh that at least used to be headquartered in Matthews, which is your neck of the woods where I'm from. And uh you guys actually bought them some time ago, didn't you? Yes, we did. Yes, we did. Harris Teaters are great stores.
SPEAKER_02Oh, we have great stores throughout the country. A lot of people who travel East Coast, West Coast don't even realize. If you look on the West Coast, we have QFC, Fred Meyer's, Ralph's, like we just talked about in LA. And Fred Meyer. And Fred Meyer, exactly.
SPEAKER_01So is it is it just basically because of the long-standing brand recognition that you buy it and keep the name and don't turn them into Kroger's? Exactly. That's a it's known in that community for sure. So how much is it in the price conscious world uh now where everybody's looking for a deal? Um is brand loyalty still a a big player in the grocery space?
SPEAKER_02Right, brand loyalty, and we talk about our brands. These are our brands at uh under your budget. So we're really uh price conscious for those shoppers out there. And the the amazing thing when you shop at a Kroger, you'll see the pricing screaming out on you by like neon stickers at five dollars, ten dollars, feeds a family of four. So that that really resonates with the consumer.
SPEAKER_01Things are tight, right? It's really getting harder and harder to source things and keep the deals cheaper just because everything's expensive.
SPEAKER_02We try to put all of our money right back into the cost, back into the cost of goods so that it lowers retails for everybody. Uh as I was telling you earlier, I I actually just filmed uh eight commercials for WSB TV that is gonna start airing next month. WSB TV is channel two here in Georgia and it's touted as the the most watched newscast. They're the big, big station. It's a big deal. So and and the the whole uh premise behind it is it's gonna be our brands are under your budget. So we're doing cost conscious meal construction for a family of four under $15, $20. You know, I'm never gonna leave that for sure. We love we love cooking.
SPEAKER_01So how did you like make that leap? Because like the corporate world, right, to a degree, and a chef, it just it's an interesting progression.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I've had such an amazing career. I I've been truly blessed. You know, my first half of my career at Kroger, I was in merchandising. So that was development, and that's where the chef came in. Chef came in in that I have background in statistics, which you probably don't know about. I actually I graduated college with a degree in statistical process control, and I work for IBM as a statistician. Really? Yeah, so it's like so like night and day. Yeah, that's two different parts of the brain. Completely different. And uh when I was young, I was there for three years, and then they offered me a buyout. And I was the youngest person in my division to take the buyout, and part of the stipulation of the buyout for for way back then was they were gonna re-educate me. So I actually chose to go to Johnson Wells University. And IBM paid for it. They paid for it.
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SPEAKER_02Yeah, but I I actually worked, we did development, uh, we did uh all chef programs, you know, creating meals out of what we call shrink. You know, we as you can imagine, grocery retail, we have a lot of food that goes unused. And it's just it's a shame. So what we do now is we we freeze it the day that it expires and we give it to food banks. Oh, that's second harvest, and it's a you know, we're feeding that's feeding the human spirit. We're actually getting food to the people who need it in the communities that we serve, which is amazing.
SPEAKER_01Because there's so much waste. So actually, we we were at the Niha conference a few weeks ago, and there's a director that we chatted with from uh Marion County, Ohio, which is a fairly small county, and they had started tracking the number of pounds of food that they were having to have thrown away, voluntarily, hopefully, or otherwise. And it's in that little county with just a handful of restaurants, it was over 5,000 pounds a year. And he had been trying to reach out to food banks to say, hey, if we set something up where it could be frozen before it has to be thrown away, and an establishment can donate it, and you you're doing it.
SPEAKER_02Because when you start talking about regulatory, academia, as well as industry, when we team up and have a partnership so that we do it food safe and we do it correctly, industry has a stake in this win for everybody, exactly. You know, and it it's not industry against regulatory, we always say it. It's a complete partnership because you know, in the day-to-day, the regulators, they shop at Kroger. They shop we would hope they all shopped at Kroger, but they they're they're shopping for their friends and family.
SPEAKER_01So there's there's been too much, at least historically, where it's like, well, those are the cops. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, it it's not bad for the brands, is it? Not at all. Because you actually probably have even more at stake because if you're if something goes wrong, oh yeah, the brand is the one that gets kicked around. Without a doubt.
SPEAKER_02That's the the partnerships are amazing. Like I said, I've been in part of Jihá as well as uh South Carolina Environmental Health. So you know the the crew at the Department of Agriculture does all the exactly right. And uh, you know, they're happy to see me, I'm happy to see them, and you know, I present at those uh my my last presentation was about um technology in food service. You know, a lot of the inspectors don't know that we are coming light years ahead in technology and usually for your own internal audits and tracking for for us, exactly right.
SPEAKER_01What is Kroger doing now? Because a lot of a lot of restaurants are even chains on the food service side struggle with that still.
SPEAKER_02I'll tell you one of the things that they find to be extremely interesting, and it's the technology is so amazing, is we have what what we call the fast system. It's called food at safe temperatures. And as you can imagine, refrigeration in a grocery retail store, you know, hundred thousand square foot. There's there's a lot of it, a lot of refrigeration. So, how do you monitor that? Once upon a time, you would have to go and take you know electron laser temps. Yeah, you temp them every four hours. Three or four hours to keep food safe. That's a lot of paperwork, that's a lot of manpower, this and that. So now we have automated sensors. Just living in there every four foot that live in there 24 hours a day. And if it goes out of spec, whether the doors open a little too long or a fan is clogged, it alerts us and then we can fix it immediately. That innovation in and of itself was massive for what it is that's it's like an internet of things sort of device, right?
SPEAKER_01And it you also get a log, right? Like you can because it's actually in restaurant environment at least, um, if a cooler goes out overnight, the inspector happens that they're unlucky enough that the inspector rolls in that morning and it opened. If they don't have that going on, they don't know that if they can't prove when it went below out of temp, you're exactly right. You just have to throw all the food away, and it's a huge loss.
SPEAKER_02Ours is all it's all automated. It'll it'll tell us exactly when it went out of the spectrum. Not the food itself, obviously, but it's the case temperature. Right. So once the case temperature crests above that 41, time starts ticking. Yep. So now we know if the alarm goes off, we can move that product safely to another cooler, or we can get refrigerated trucks sent out. But it's it's it it's just been amazing for us over the last years. They love that presentation.
SPEAKER_01Kudos to Kroger. I actually wish I'd have seen that presentation because I and I wish a lot of other people in industry had. Oh, yeah. Because I how do you kudos to Kroger? Because I do know and no names, but there are large organizations that everyone would recognize that have not invested. Because obviously, there's two ways of looking at even this the temperature thing. You can look at it as well, this is not only the right thing to do, but it makes good business sense. But there are organizations who look at that and say, Oh, it's a price tag. Oh, it comes. And they don't want to spend the money.
SPEAKER_02It comes at a huge cost, but you know, where where do you put the cost on food safety? You know, where do you put the but again? We are friends and family, we shop at Kroger. Where do you draw the line? Eat your own dog food, as the saying goes. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01And also I the other thing is uh not to not to be pedantic about it, but a lot of times they don't think about, especially big publicly traded. You know, Chipotle is a case study. Like you you can ignore it, but the the cost to your reputation or if you're publicly traded, the stock price is way more than those sensors would have cost. Without a doubt.
SPEAKER_02Once you lose that trust of the consumer, very hard to get it back because you know you just said Chipotle. You know, some of the companies that I'm sure every all your listeners know, Bluebell, you know, all these I I say Boarshead. Boarshead has that's a big brand.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you know, and it sticks with consumers, right? Even years later, they're it it can nag it to people. Right.
SPEAKER_02Um and and that's what they do. You know, you for example, Boarshead, they show how well they're doing with food safety to get that trust back. But it only takes one time. I tell even the the folks at Kroger, it takes one person having a bad day to do something incorrect to make only two people ill, and it's national headline news. That's why it's part of our core values, our core values of uh safety. That is food safety.
SPEAKER_01That and I hope, because there's a good bit of industry actually we hear from from time to time that listens like this is the way to do it. Um but you must have like it's I think it's gotten worse, and and maybe we're guilty of always thinking the time we're living in is like uniquely complicated. Probably people have said that going back to the 1800s or before, but it does feel like over the last few years the employment market has gotten difficult in terms of retention turnover. There's a training um challenge, isn't there? When because you you can't be in every store. Okay, you can one place at a time. How do you handle it from a training perspective so that you know that everybody's got the message at all of these stores all across you know your territory and the country?
SPEAKER_02Again, it comes with that partnership with regulatory as well as industry. For example, Kroger, anybody who goes through management training or anybody who's in charge of the store, they have to go through National Registry Food Safety Professionals for to be CPFM certified. They can be certified. I train them. Every run everybody who comes through is CPFM certified. And you know, that says a lot about a company that's gonna spend that much, it's timely, it's taking people out of you know, the customer facing right there on store. They're in a class with me eight to ten hours, and they get certified, and now we know that they are the top, they know what they're doing with with the food. So that's you talk about a management level, but then when you talk about associate level, we have web-based learning. They all have to go through the web-based learning on food safety certification before they hit the floor. Exactly. Technology is a huge part of everything that we do, and it will be going forward.
SPEAKER_01That is that's impressive. And um, so regulators is um first of all, it's great that you're doing the conferences and things. Again, if people would like and get out of their mind that well, I don't know what I should say to them, or don't treat them, you know, almost like they could bite you. Um what what are you doing, uh, or would you tell other industries about getting involved in the at the at the level in the markets that they're in or the states? Like roll up your sleeves and get involved and be their partner.
SPEAKER_02Oh, without a doubt. The collaboration, like you come to these events and just one-on-one, just talking, collaborating. Oh, I have this idea, or this is something Kroger's thinking about doing. Oh, how can we do it safely? Can float it and front running. Yeah, for yeah, exactly, exactly. Um some huge endeavor that we did last year, and we work very closely with the Georgia Department of Agriculture, was uh mobile grocery store. We have we have it's it's one of the I think three in the country where we actually house it at a Kroger store, we stock it, we have refrigeration, and we bring it to food deserts. And it's easy so they can use uh EBT and and food stamps, and we bring it to them, and it's outstanding. And it was a great partnership with the Georgia Department of Agriculture, and during our ribbon cutting, the first one was over in Savannah, they were all there as well. So it was great for the community, and it's just just think about that, it's it's huge. That's huge.
SPEAKER_01It is, and actually, like, why hasn't that been done more around the country? Because you hear about the whole conversation about food deserts, and you don't have to build well, what was your experience? You don't have to go make an investment in a big box store to necessarily put a dent in that problem, do you?
SPEAKER_02No, we just we bring it to you.
SPEAKER_01And that it was it successful and was it?
SPEAKER_02It's doing fantastic, yeah. The people love it, and it the PR on that is just amazing.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I was gonna say, like, I would think that that almost promotes itself. That's that's really amazing. So, what do you what do you all do? So obviously, day in and day out, inspectors go into stores, they do inspections. I know that at least historically, if you're a big chain, that you know, used to in the old days, they would rely on the manager or the operator to have to fax in. Now some it's email. But how do you all review or think of inspections that are done? Because they are a snapshot, obviously. You know, it's it's it doesn't prove uh anything conclusively. But do you do you guys have a way where you ingest and deal and look at those so that you're aware of what's the regulator saying? Oh, without a doubt.
SPEAKER_02So what we do on everything's based on food code, obviously. So we have third party Ecolab. So they call it EcoSure program. EcoSure, Eco Lab, they come out every other month, so that's another snapshot in time. But then we take it one step further and we have every one of our store leaders doing that what we call critical check, anything that can be detrimental to public health every day. So you're writing a checklist every day. Every day. When you know, when you talk about temperature control and cross contamination, they're trained to know what to look for, and then they're out there in the stores looking for it real time. That's it. That way we can get it. And that's we keep improving upon that, you know. Yeah. And and honestly, the the states in which we operate, if there were ever a consumer complaint or a situation, the State Department is comfortable enough to call us, the food safety managers, and then we we work as a team to resolve. That's so they're not.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're again no fear on your side, they're comfortable enough. It doesn't speak to like just humanity, right? Is relationships that's are the the key to everything.
SPEAKER_02Without a doubt. And they, you know, we were talking um this week alone in that so we are where we need to be. Kroger, our management staffs, our associates, where the lack of education is, is with the consumer. That's what we keep saying to each other. You know, we're like, wow, how can we get the consumers more involved? You know, when you talk to just a regular lay person who's out there shopping at Kroger and they're buying a big family pack of chicken, do they know how to properly handle it? Are they using a thermometer to leave it in the back of the car too long? Yeah, okay, they've kept it at temp and they defeat all of it. Exactly, exactly. So we're trying to get more into that Kroger. Um, I told you we were doing WSB TV commercials, but I just did some audios for our stores that talk about just food safety. Hey, if you're gonna go, as you just said, if you're purchasing groceries, bring them home in a timely manner to keep them food safe. Don't keep them in cars and all smart. So we we have a whole script that we're growing going through to do PAs and store. Even if somebody catches that once or twice, they're gonna remember it and they're gonna tell that is that is that is really, really, really smart.
SPEAKER_01So what would you tell? So the average consumer, like what is the biggest like you think because you know, the home kitchen? We've talked with inspectors before, and they're like, I don't know if my kitchen would pass inspections someday. That's exactly right. So, what would you tell somebody who's at home and they're like, you know what? I haven't been paying attention to this, but it is important. I don't want my family to be sick or at risk. What would you tell somebody at like what should be thinking about at home? How do you have a safe product? And I know that's a really big topic, but are like some key things that keep in mind before you're gonna go prepare things at home.
SPEAKER_02It was just an amazing conversation. I wish wish we would have recorded this a minute ago. We were talking about even the consumer, when they start, when they enter the grocery store, a lot of them they want to go green, so they're bringing those recyclable, reusable bags. Yes, everybody's coming in with their bags. If you're thinking about that bag, I'm putting chick raw chicken in there, I'm putting um maybe I'm doing chemicals in there, I'm doing whatever. And you never really clean them or wash them, do you? So that's that's one of the the key scripts we have is that hey, it's great to go green, but remember that could be a cross-contamination issue. You can grow bacteria, you need to remember to clean and sanitize, put them in a washer every once in a while. Yeah. So we'd even start as you enter the store, not to mention, as you just said, you know, don't go to the kids' soccer game and think that the milk's gonna be good in the trunk of the car for an hour and a half while you're watching, you know, timely manner. So we talk about cross-contamination's big deal, temperature control, and then proper cook temperatures. If you don't have a thermometer and you don't know how to use it, that's that's you are courting disaster ultimately, aren't you?
SPEAKER_01Oh, you're definitely, you're not going down the right road. So there's a professional chef. I so I I mean, I'm average American guy, I'll grill. Pork and chicken scare me. I have a thermometer, but like I just live in this anxiety of if I don't have that chicken. Done enough, you know, it'd be sick. Like, but the thermometer, if you if the center of it is up to as it, what is it now? Is it 140? 160. 165 for chicken. That's it.
SPEAKER_02165 for chicken, yes.
SPEAKER_01150 something for pork. Oh, that's 145. 145 for 145. Yeah. So temps are king. As long as you get it up to that, you're you're good.
SPEAKER_02I think you know, everybody should own a thermometer, meat thermometer, but also a little, even they give them away here from State Department, even Department of Public Health will give you a little magnet. It'll tell you this is a proper cook temperature for pork, beef, ground beef, chicken, etc. etc. And if you can commit those to memory, or you know, then you're gonna be good to go. Yeah, you're gonna be good to go. And the other thing is too, I see some people, you know, will that they'll want to touch it with their finger. Yeah, that doesn't work. You have to take the real temperature, you know, or they cut into it and see if it's like a little uh a little opaque.
SPEAKER_01That doesn't work either. It's all about temperature. I mean, if it's raw, obviously you can see that. Now, what about so okay, so poking a steak, not just for tip like so is beef a little different? Because like you can tell how that steak's just the softness I want it to be.
SPEAKER_02But beef is different in that if you don't penetrate the muscle, anything from the exterior is gonna come to the interior if you poke it. So if you have a solid steak, anything that sears, you say you grill. Once it hits the grill and it sears on the outside, everything else, you're safe. It's like because you're just killing whatever's on it from the nothing's gonna penetrate the muscle unless you actually inject it, or some people mechanically tenderize with a fork, you know, pokey pokey pokey. You know, I can remember growing up with my mom, London broil, a tougher cut of meat. Yeah, you hit it with a fork, ch ch ch but now you got to cook that to a higher temperature because you've penetrated the muscle. It's the same thing with ground beef, right?
SPEAKER_01Because you've blended everything together. Exactly right. It's 155. So what how how do you do a steak on the grill? I I know it's not technically food safety topic, but you'll get to talk to an actual professional chef very often. Oh, okay, perfect. Like, you know, I I I like ribeyes. Um, like should you do the salt, the cigar? How do you how do you do a good steak?
SPEAKER_02Now, if I were gonna do a ribeye, first of all, I would buy buy it in the cryovac, in the cryovac itself, like a half ribeye or whatever, yep, and then wet age it in your refrigerator. And what you do is you just take it in the cryovac and you're gonna turn it like once a week, and be people say, you have a steak in your refrigerator for a couple of weeks? Yes, it's in the cryovac, there's nothing gonna be able to penetrate. It's almost like having a something in a can where it's you're not gonna have any bacterial growth, but you're gonna actually um you're gonna release some of that some of that blood and intensify the flavor of the meat. It's almost like a dry aged beef, but we call it wet age. So I would do that, and then what I would do is I would do a dry rub. My favorite is like a Montreal steak seasoning, let it sit out at room temperature, super hot, screaming hot grill, sear, sear, but that don't I don't finish it on the grill. I finish it in the in an oven, very low temperature. It's almost a lot of people do that like the reverse sear, you know, yeah, yeah, where they'll do this and then sear it at the end. This is my it's an alternative to that where you sear it and then finish it low so that it go comes through all the way.
SPEAKER_01Low and slow in the oven. Slow and low. So like you would do a roast or something, like a rib roast or something in the oven. Without a doubt. What do you what temperature do you do that on? Well in the in the oven. In the oven. Like if you've seared it, what do you do with it then?
SPEAKER_02I do that about 250. 250, and that's when the thermometer is really coming into play because I'll take it out at about 132, 133. Let it rest. I'll have a little bit of carryover cooking at 135. So it's seared on the outside, nice crust, but then red all the way through. So you've just seared on the grill. Yeah. That's interesting. A little bit more involved in the world. Yeah, it's a little it extends the time to cook for sure. But even if you're in the grill and you say, Oh, well, I'm gonna finish it on the grill, and I'm just gonna turn the grill off or just do whatever, it's still gonna get super hot in there and you have a tendency to overcook. Whereas if you know the oven's gonna just stay at that exact temperature, I'm gonna get that sear on it, put it in there and keep an eye on it.
SPEAKER_01And if you're doing the multiple things for multiple people, you're like, Oh, I'm just gonna take these steaks and put them on the top rack. That grill's hot. Oh, yeah. And I've I've overdone steaks more than I care to admit that way. Exactly. And I because I'm a medium rare guy. So, Morris, who's producing over there, like we need to save that clip just for ourselves personally, because I'm gonna try that. I love doing like a rib roast in the oven. Oh, without doubt. And uh do it with a that's a great oven.
SPEAKER_02We do it in the oven, something like that, like uh say a beef tanner line, very low, a little low fat, yeah, but you know, it's very delicate. So we start in the oven, super high heat, and then turn it down. So are you searing with the broiler? No, no, searing with a super high heat. Just all the way up 225, all the way up, and then turn it all the way down to 300. And let it cook. And just let it cook until but that's the key. You gotta keep an eye on it. Internal temperature 133, 135, pull it out, let it rest, perfection. Amazing.
SPEAKER_01So, um, and sorry for that rabbit shirt. That was great. I love that. It's um I'm gonna have to try that because uh fall, it's too hot North Carolina to grill in the heart of the summer. I'm an indoor pet.
SPEAKER_02The here is amazing. The last couple of days is it's it's been very hot. It's gotten really warm. Nobody even wants to go out and smoke anything at this you know, smokers and stuff. No, no, it's just too much.
SPEAKER_01You know, it's too small. Um, do you do you have a smoker? Like do you because that's really popular in Europe. What's the best smoker? Is it a Tregger? Well, I'm not gonna go there. Okay, that's fair. Yeah, put you on the spot that way.
SPEAKER_02Um everybody has a you know, you have green egg, you have matt, you know, the the master belt or uh the different things like Draeger. Um they all say they're the best. They all say they're the best. I've worked on on all of them, and I always say it's not the tools, it's the mechanic using them. So if you know how to use it, you're gonna be all right. Yeah, it does.
SPEAKER_01Some are trickier than others, you know. That that yeah, that's that's that just makes so much sense. Like you can have a $500 grill or a $5,000, and if you're a better cook, yeah, you're gonna beat the expensive grill every time, right? Yeah, that's all. Because it is what it's heat, it's a flame. It is it's all you're doing. Exactly right. It's technique.
SPEAKER_02Technique. It's all about methodology, we say.
SPEAKER_01What are um do you get in the kitchen much? Because it's a busy job you've got. Like you're doing all the trainings and things. Is it is the kitchen your happy place, or do you still get in there from time to time?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, oh well, I definitely do. When we do the commercials and we do, you know, food plating, so we'll we'll prep the food and show picture perfect plates for commercials and different things like this. Uh, have the opportunity to cook at some big events over the last few years. I'm you know, uh my passion was I was on the King's Hawaiian culinary team, and we would always go down to the uh Miami Food and Wine Festival, South Beach Food and Wine Festival, and we would prepare meals for 3,500 people in one day. Wow. Outstanding. But you know, fast paced, really fun. That's a lot of meals. I was the food safety guy on that team, so everything you would have to meet with the inspectors down there as well. And you have multiple restaurants and people coming down and chefs from all over the country. But food safety was first. Let's see how you're handling the product. Is it under refrigeration? How are you gonna cook it? What's the temperature you're gonna cook it? So uh the public doesn't know behind the scenes. There's a lot of safety going on, and so they're already set set for them.
SPEAKER_01They actually with the Super Bowl was uh was in San Francisco uh this past January, and there we work with them. HSGuptech, the underwriter of the podcast, is the data system out there with them, and they had a team of their inspectors out there for the entire two weeks leading up and during the Super Bowl. Oh, that's amazing. And and it it's like literally they handled it. Well, it's almost now a national level one national security event. Right. But I just because we work with them, got a appreciation for the hecticness of that. And they're they loved it. Oh they they didn't get to watch the game, obviously, because they're in the kitchens monitoring things, but they were real time leading up to and during the game.
SPEAKER_02I find it so fascinating. That would be something that I would love to do on my bucket list, you know, to be out on that team. These these guys and gals in here who are the inspectors, they were just talking in uh during one of the segments about the World Cup. You know, World Cup was here in Atlanta. They were working 24 hours a day prior to, as you said, during, because you're feeding how many millions of people. Yeah, yeah, you know, in different venues, but on not only that, but they're feeding the athletes and you know, all this it's and international athletes, so that's deep. It is real deep. There's uh so much to it.
SPEAKER_01In fact, um such a huge job. It is, and they're so we talk about this on this show all the time. There's not enough public awareness about what that job is, what they do, and how important it is. It's very important. And it also, we we we kid in with the audience, but they very few people grow up or like when they're looking in their high school years at what they want to do, very few people say, I want to be an environmental health specialist. I think it's largely a promotion, promotional problem to a degree because there's just not the awareness. And if you're a person who uh likes to solve puzzles, is inquisitive, um this it is never a day, never two days that are the same in a job like that. Yeah, and in fact, there was um the the major league. Sorry, I know you probably have a hard stop, but there's so many uh the the the uh pro sports are really starting to get into this. In fact, I know a couple of folks who one guy, Bob Custer, actually, has been on the show a few times from Virginia, actually was uh did a contracting gig with a major league baseball team to put all of the specs in place for their stadiums. They're starting to really do the uh athlete locker rooms. Oh, yeah. All of that food safety, they've they're putting big protocols in place because as he put it, you've got a hundred million dollar asset and you're going to just feed him any slop without taking care of it. That that doesn't make any sense.
SPEAKER_02It's exactly right. You know, we talk in here, like you say, it it's somewhat of a thankless job. You know, it's no news is good news. Yeah, the dog in the bark. Yeah, the only time you hear about something is if something negative happens. That's right. Whereas where's the positivity, as you just said, we just fed how many millions of people internationally? Yeah, and it was nothing. You know, that's the thing he just said. He said there were zero incidents of anything, which is huge. That's almost the law of large numbers says that's hard to accomplish. Unbelievable, without a doubt. You didn't hear anything about it, but that as you said, it needs more uh publicity. That hey, do you realize what happened behind the scenes and it was really well done by all the inspectors?
SPEAKER_01So what they really need is a uh not sensationalized, but a TV show. Oh yeah. Problem is though, and I get it, a lot of chains and restaurants especially would probably not like that, right? Because that you can you can't if you have a camera following an inspector, and I get it, cameras do change everything, whether you say reality TVs, not really, because you're recording someone, they change. But media is how people really learn about things in the world in the modern era, and they're missing from it in in so many ways.
SPEAKER_02Though I will tell you, every consumer has got a camera, everybody's a media person now. See, right, that's the thing, and that's an issue. Right, Instagram and as few incidents as we have across the board. I'm talking about gr grocery retail, restaurant, country club.
SPEAKER_01That says a lot. It does. How do you deal with that? Because when everybody is a citizen journalist with a phone and not everybody's uh either educated to like what should or shouldn't be happening, and not everybody is um fair. How would how do you deal with that?
SPEAKER_02We actually work with the State Department regulators because they're will typically be involved as well, any type of media that comes from it. We come at and we head hit it head on. Hey, what do you think you see? Let us explain to you what you think you see, and we'll we'll explain the the science behind it. Interesting. You know, and the regulators, we would never do anything without that.
SPEAKER_01So if you I don't know if you have some of your stuff like posted, like you talked about, you do the planning and commercials. Anything that you think be interesting for folks to see that you mentioned, if you get me the links, we'll put them down in the description uh of that. And again, no pressure because some of that stuff's probably internal, but anything that you think or if you've done some media or something that you think would be fun for the audience, just send me a link and we'll embed it. Definitely will. You know what I'll do?
SPEAKER_02I'll send you our scripts for the food safety for the consumers. Oh, that is a that's a great idea. And what we did a couple of years ago is we did recipes that we hand out when I do personal appearances and I do cooking for state departments or state fairs or whatever the case is. It's a recipe on front, but then the food safety on the back, the proper cook temperatures, why we do what we do, temperature control. So important. It goes hand in hand. That's great. Thank you for doing that.
SPEAKER_01And what will so you did state fairs? Oh, yeah. I do that. That's a crazy fun environment, isn't it? I love it. It's amazing. So are you you're not the guy like Date Fry and Oregos, I assume.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no. They have a Georgia actually, Georgia Grown does a they do a big booth every year where they have uh stage that have chefs that come out and do it. Georgia Grown chefs. You do like a whole presentation. Oh, yeah, yeah. Use some product and you know uh farm fresh produce.
SPEAKER_01Is it coming up this fall? Is it like most states in like September, October?
SPEAKER_02I love it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, September, October. Yeah, it gets got a little bit of a little cooler. A little cooler here, yeah.
SPEAKER_02A little bit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you can get warm, but yeah, that fall air and you go get, I'm a sucker for cotton candy funnel cakes. I I I eat like I was in college still. Only at the fair though. Only at the fair. That's that's we'll go with that. Yeah, there you go. I'd love to actually like follow up with you sometime. Maybe we're in formal studio and things. And uh but first of all, kudos to Kroger. I I I know that in tough economic times there's been companies who have like cut back on their food safety program. Oh no. Don't do it, don't do it. And by the way, you can't, you would know more being plugged in, right? If they're contemplating a rule change, you're in the room. And so you either can be prepared or say, hey, this doesn't work for industry because so anyway, I could ramble on all day. Thank you so much, Chef John. And uh we'll we'll probably be following up with him again sometime in more normal studio environment. But really enjoyed that conversation. Hope you all did too. For all of us here at the Beyond Data Management Podcast, live from Jihad in Lake Lanier, Georgia. I'm Cameron Garrison. We'll see you in just a little bit with another conversation from Jiha. Have a good one.